61. Marsden: Take It From A Canadian:  Hillary's Dream Will Be Your Nightmare! The reality is that socialized medicine is an abysmal failure Under the canadian system, anyone who wants to escape this disaster of Titanic proportions has no http://www.politicalusa.com/columnists/marsden/marsden_019.htm

Our latest: The culture war is over The hero you never heard of Cheeseburgers: Big brothers next target The hip-hop vote ... Frathouse fun at Abu Ghraib Hot links: Protest Warrior RingsidePolitics Listen live Click here to bookmark us! Kirsten Andersen Brent Barksdale ... Politics Hillary's Dream Will Be Your Nightmare! Bio rachel@politicalusa.com Get Updates Walk up to a Canadian and ask him what sets his country apart from the USA, and he'll likely reply with one of five things: Gun control; a less hawkish, more diplomatic approach to world affairs; a collective preoccupation with adverse weather patterns; a burning passion for hockey; and a socialized health care system. Canada's health care system is its touchstone. Canadians are literally brainwashed into believing that Canada wouldn't be the great country it is without its health care program. According to canadian lore, America is full of people who are paying through the eye-teeth for medical treatment, and if you're not wealthy, you either don't get the treatment you need, or you declare bankruptcy. Being a Canadian myself, I grew up hearing all about these nightmarish tales of the "evil american health care system". All the while, I was having to go to the doctor three days in a row, only to be turned away each time because the doctor had seen his maximum allowable government-funded quota of patients for the day. In my home province of British Columbia, 24 people died in one year while waiting for heart surgery. On the other side of the country, kids in desperate need of heart surgery at the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto were being sent home. At Moncton Hospital in New Brunswick, patients were being kept in hallways and closets because of a lack of beds. In some cases, ambulance workers spoke of how they would drive dying patients from one emergency room to another in search of available beds or adequate equipment.

62. `Socialized Medicine' of socialized medicine is the fact that the government pays for a wide range of services according to fee schedules negotiated with the providers (canadian http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/itcp/1999/msg00087.html

Date Thread `Socialized medicine' by Randy Wigle 04 November 1999 18:50 UTC There has been a lot of discussion here about how liberalizing trade in services would threaten socialized medicine in Canada. I really don't understand this. To me, the key feature of socialized medicine is the fact that the government pays for a wide range of services according to fee schedules negotiated with the providers (Canadian Medical Association for example). I would have thought that trade liberalization in services would have helped, not hindered the government's ability to pay for these services. I also wouldn't have foreseen a trade challenge to what amounts to non-discriminatory 'price controls' in medical services... Can someone spell the argument out, please. Randy Wigle On sabbatical at: Economics Department MacKinnon Building 7th Floor University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Phone (519) 824-4120 X8945 (sporadic, no voice mail) FAX (home) (519) 571-0605 http://info.wlu.ca/~wwwsbe/faculty/rwigle/index.shtml

63. The Myths Of Canadian Health Care Maybe the canadian newspapers will tell us what proponents of socialized medicine won’t. Claim 1 Canada’s System of socialized medicine http://usanext.org/\./full_story.cfm?article_id=24&category_id=3

64. Socialized Medicine socialized medicine. With the dissolution of the Soviet Bloc, and the supposed calm (or apathy towards events) in the third world, the modern Republican has very few scapegoats to attack. one new http://www.angelfire.com/pa/antisocialzine/shc.html

var cm_role = "live" var cm_host = "angelfire.lycos.com" var cm_taxid = "/memberembedded" Socialized Medicine In order to insure the well being of our citizens, and to fight economic discrimination (which is the largest scale discrimination in the world today) the United States must take steps towards socialized medicine. However critics of the system, mostly rich men with full health coverage, condemn the idea. They claim itís inefficient, expensive and most of all, slow. In order to prove them wrong, we must compare our system to that of Canada’s, a country which is culturally quite like ours, but has socialized medicine. Simply looking at the facts makes the strongest argument for a socialized system like Canadaís. Canadian and American cultures are quite similar. We eat roughly the same amount of red meat, drink roughly the same amount of alcohol, and exercise roughly as much, but for some reason, Canadaís rate of heart disease is 20% lower than Americas1. This is largely because of Canadaís more accessible health system. Canadaís infant mortality rate is 25% lower, as a result of their ‘dust-to-dust’ policy. Canada’s average life span is 77.1 years, a whopping two years longer then America’s. Canada’s health care system obviously draws better results than Americas. Not only does socialized medicine help to defeat economic discrimination, but it is also far better organized than American systems. In Canada citizens only spend $18 a year on ‘Administrative’ costs, whereas in America we spend 95$ a year, resulting in a total of $20,000,000,000 more than we would spend with a Canadian-style system. As a result of being much more centralized, Canadian emergency rooms can have a patient’s medical history, complete with life saving lists of allergies, in a third of the time it takes to get a patient’s history in America. Because of this, America has 50% more deaths from latex glove allergies than Canada does.

65. Hospital Food And Socialized Medicine Hospital Food and socialized medicine. Lawrence W. Reed. Hospital food is rarely are waged. Except in Canada, that is. Last September http://www.libertyhaven.com/countriesandregions/canada/hospitalfood.shtml

Theoretical/Philosophical Issues Politics/Government Personal Freedom Issues Regulations ... Yourname@libertyhaven.com Email login: Password: Search for: Books Magazines Music Maps Out of Print Books British Books British Magazines British Music Keywords: Hospital Food and Socialized Medicine Lawrence W. Reed Hospital food is rarely mistaken for gourmet cuisine anywhere, but at least it's not an issue over which major political campaigns are waged. Except in Canada, that is. Last September, a colleague of mine visited Manitoba, a province in central Canada. Electioneering was at a fever pitch, with just a few days left before voting for a variety of public offices. My friend was astonished to observe that the dominant issue was indeed hospital food. It had become a political hot potato, the candidates outdoing one another to express concern and promise action. The unhappy patients of Manitoba's hospitals and personal-care homes have complained for months about the introduction of "rethermalized food" - cut-rate meals prepared 1,300 miles away in Toronto, then frozen and shipped to Manitoba, where they are nuked in microwave ovens and served. Peter Holle, president of the Frontier Centre for Public Policy in Winnipeg, explained to me that the rethermalized meals idea was a cost-saving "innovation" of government bureaucrats employed by regional health authorities. "Never mind that they taste like cardboard," says Holle. "Never mind that individual tastes and circumstances might dictate decentralized food services. Reheated meals became a symbol of efficiency for the supposedly compassionate do-gooders in government. Why pay hundreds of workers in dozens of Manitoba kitchens when we can just zap up frozen dinners from Toronto? Somebody suggested that the province could save more money by serving these meals in the legislature's dining room too, but that was one idea that the politicians dismissed as truly halfbaked."

66. MOOREWATCH - Striking Back In Canada - COMMENTS I don t know, if the US had socialized medicine (which we might before too long) then we As it is, we can have a slightly better system than Canada (279 vs 229 http://moorewatch.com/comments.php?id=P655_0_1_0

67. Directory Of Socialized Medicine Scholarly And In-Depth Studies From Free-Market A portal for socialized medicine Scholarly and InDepth Studies. This professionally-managed directory is published by Free-Market.Net The Freedom Network, the world's most comprehensive source http://www.free-market.net/directorybycategory/in-depth/T8.1

about map news channels ... find you are here: Free-Market.Net Find Directory by Category Scholarly and In-Depth Studies Socialized Medicine Scholarly and In-Depth Studies search get personal recommendations add a resource/link Global ... Africa Global A high price for patients: an update on government health care in Britain and Canada Source: The Heritage Foundation Author: James Frogue Country: United States Advocates of subsidized medicine often claim that the U.S. health care system should be more like the government-run health care in Canada and Britain, but moving American medicine in this direction would be a terrible mistake, resulting in long lines for treatment, substandard technology, frustrated doctors and patients, and government rationing of care. (9/26/00) The structural problems of single-payer systems Source: Heartland Institute/Healthcare News Author: Richard Teske Country: United States The promises made by proponents of a single national health system always sound so much better than the reality. That is the Faustian bargain of all socialized economic systems. Those systems may start out in different places, but they always end up in the same place: price controls, rationed access, and second-tier quality. (08/01) The structural problems of single-payer systems Source: Heartland Institute/Healthcare News Author: Richard Teske Country: United States The promises made by proponents of a single national health system always sound so much better than the reality. That is the Faustian bargain of all socialized economic systems. Those systems may start out in different places, but they always end up in the same place: price controls, rationed access, and second-tier quality. (08/01)

68. NCPA - Health Issues - Socialized Medicine Canada Style: Nobody Likes It Health Issues. socialized medicine Canada Style Nobody Likes It. To hold down skyrocketing costs and still comply with mandates of http://www.ncpa.org/health/pdh36b.html

Health Issues Socialized Medicine Canada Style: Nobody Likes It To hold down skyrocketing costs and still comply with mandates of the Canadian Health Care Act which requires universal health coverage from the government the province of Ontario passed a so-called Savings and Restructuring Act earlier this year. It attempts to attack the problem of out-of-control costs by rationing and price controls. Over the past five years, increases in Ontario's mandated physicians' fees have been restricted to less than 1 percent a year. Doctors have been required to return to the government one-third of their gross income over $251,000 Canadian (US$183,700) , two-thirds of their gross income over C$276,000, and three-fourths of their gross income over C$30l,000. Their net income after expenses, but before taxes, is 40 percent to 50 percent less than their gross income. In spite of these measures, physicians' total billings are increasing by 13 percent a year. In June 1995, after four years of socialist rule during which the provincial government's debt load doubled Ontarians elected a conservative government which drastically reduced spending. In January, Ontario passed the Savings and Restructuring Act. Although aimed at cutting costs it has had these results: Ontario physicians have become civil servants although without pensions or unemployment insurance.

69. Socialized Medicine - Encyclopedia Article About Socialized Medicine. Free Acces as socialized medicine by its opponents. It is the primary provider of medical services in most industrial societies, including in Europe, Canada, Australia http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Socialized medicine

Dictionaries: General Computing Medical Legal Encyclopedia Socialized medicine Word: Word Starts with Ends with Definition Publicly funded medicine is a level of medical service that is paid wholly or in majority part by public funds ( taxes A tax is an involuntary fee or, more precisely, "unrequited payment", paid by individuals or businesses to a government (central or local). Taxes may be paid in cash or kind (although payments in kind may not always be allowed or classified as taxes in all systems). The means of taxation, and the uses to which the funds raised through taxation should be put, are a matter of hot dispute in politics and economics, so discussions of taxation are frequently tendentious. Click the link for more information. ). Publicly funded medicine is often referred to as socialized medicine by its opponents, whereas supporters of this approach tend to use the terms National Health Services The National Health Service NHS ) is the publicly-funded healthcare system of the United Kingdom. It was created on 5 July 1948 by Clement Attlee's Labour government, under health and housing minister Nye Bevan. The NHS followed on from the "Panel" system set up in 1911 under the aegis of Lloyd-George, and the primary care records are still stored in "Lloyd-George" envelopes although nowadays most working records in primary care are computerised. Click the link for more information.

70. Hit & Run: Outsourcing Socialism And socialized medicine in places such as Canada and England benifit from the research done in relatively free systems, such as the US. http://reason.com/hitandrun/003000.shtml

Continuous news, views, and abuse by the Reason staff Main October 01, 2003 Outsourcing Socialism For years, Canadians stuck on long waiting lists for medical care have travelled south for treatment. A British High Court ruling , however, could make it official National Health Service policy to ship folks abroad if they've gone without their guaranteed care for an "undue" amount of time. (What counts as "undue" isn't yet clear.) Of course, given the relatively high death rates of patients who undergo major surgery in Britain, it may be worth the wait. Posted by Julian Sanchez at October 1, 2003 11:39 AM Comments Well when you're waiting six years or so for that cancer surgery you need, I would say that it's pretty "undue." Posted by: Mark S. on October 1, 2003 11:49 AM They should use the American system: if you don't have privately-provided insurance, you don't find out about the cancer until it's way too late to do anything about it. Poof, no expensive surgery! Posted by: joe on October 1, 2003 12:05 PM Joe: Funny you should mention that...

71. Rex Morgan S Prescription? Socialized Medicine In US socialized medicine in US. by James Adams. Supporters of socialized health care in Canada and the United States have a seemingly unlikely friend in Rex Morgan MD http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0827-01.htm

Home Newswire About Us Donate ... Archives Headlines Printer Friendly Version E-Mail This Article Published on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 in the Rex Morgan's Prescription? Socialized Medicine in US by James Adams Supporters of socialized health care in Canada and the United States have a seemingly unlikely friend in Rex Morgan M.D. , the handsome, deeply decent physician who has been a staple of newspaper comics since 1948. So far there's no record of the Romanow health care commission or the U.S. Secretary of Health having consulted the fictional doctor. Mr. Wilson has been writing Rex Morgan M.D. , a sort of soap opera in comic form, since 1991, having worked as an apprentice under its originator, psychiatrist Nicholas Dallis (now deceased), since 1982. Under Mr. Wilson, Rex Morgan hasn't hesitated to tackle domestic violence, epilepsy, drug abuse, AIDS, organ transplants, asthma and sexual harassment. But in recent months Mr. Wilson has pulled his rock-jawed hero firmly into the far more dicey arena of health policy, even sending him to Washington, D.C., to testify before legislators. The strip's current storyline is dealing with the fallout from the death of Rex Morgan's friend, Dick Coleman, who lost his job after being diagnosed with colon cancer. Losing the job resulted in the loss of his family's health coverage and the threatened foreclosure on the mortgage on the Colemans' home.

72. What Exactly Is Meant By Two-tiered Medicine? apply to MRI machines, ignoring the other 99% of medicine. ourselves in the belief of our socialized system national set of laws termed “The Canada Health Act http://www.aresearchguide.com/drk2tier.html

What Exactly Is Meant by Two-Tiered Medicine? By Dr. Peter W. Kujtan, B.Sc., M.D., Ph.D. This article originally appeared on page 18 in the January 17-18, 2004 issue of The Mississauga News There is nothing more confusing to me than people making references to two tiers in health care. I am totally confounded by this term and it seems to only apply to MRI machines, ignoring the other 99% of medicine. The provision of health care in Canada already occurs on at least seven different tiers that I can think of. We tend to console ourselves in the belief of our socialized system. We even have a national set of laws termed “The Canada Health Act” that was meant to guarantee the same medical care to all Canadians. It was well intentioned when enacted, but with time, we overwhelmed our ability to provide state of the art medicine and the price of advanced technology was too great to provide for all. No matter how wealthy or poor, Canadians all get the same level of care. Or do we? In Ontario, most residents are covered by a provincial insurance plan called OHIP - Ontario Health Insurance Plan And there are yet other tiers that we should not forget. When a system cannot provide acceptable levels of service and the latest technologies, the resourceful find other ways to cope. Rumors of bribery and underground enhancements to gain timely access to services have begun to appear. In immensely complex systems where the individual feels that they have no control, cannot find administrators to hear and act upon their concerns, fear takes over and they opt out completely. And this too is a tier. People turn to alternative methods in the hopes of finding cures while maintaining a semblance of independence and control.

73. Catallarchy.net Charley Reese Endorses Socialized Medicine am a physician myself, and I can tell you that it is a mistake to call what other countries like England and Canada do ‘socialized medicine’ while calling http://www.catallarchy.net/blog/cgi-bin/archives/000245.html

« Does money grow on Washington? Main Labor's last legs » July 19, 2003 Charley Reese endorses socialized medicine TrackBack (0) From his latest column [via Bill St. Clair I never thought I'd say this, but what Congress should do is go whole-hog and provide health care for the entire population and tax people to pay for it. Then the government would be in a position to drive hard bargains with hospitals, pharmaceuticals and doctors. Tell me again why this guy is supposed to be some sort of libertarian? Comments Posted by: Kevin White at July 19, 2003 10:35 PM Posted by: Doug Allen at July 19, 2003 10:52 PM Posted by: Kevin White at July 20, 2003 12:04 AM Kevin, Jonathan Posted by: Jonathan at July 20, 2003 06:27 PM Listed below are links to weblogs that reference 'Charley Reese endorses socialized medicine' Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Yes No Comments: A blog dedicated to the defense of liberal philosophy, countenance of individualist ethics, celebration of civil society, and study of human action. Jonathan Wilde Brian W. Doss

74. Archive | September 1996 | Need Does Not Create Right -- Socialized Medicine Mus Not Create Right socialized medicine Must Go. By Gord Gekko web posted September 1996. The Fraser Institute recently released a report concerning Canada’s http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0996medicine.htm

Need Does Not Create Right Socialized Medicine Must Go By Gord Gekko web posted September 1996 That being so, does the government have the right to mandate what a doctor will charge for their services? The answer, in a free society, is no. Under the current Canadian Medicare system, doctors do not have the right to charge their own rates based on market conditions and their own ability. The government effectively decides how the Medicare system will be run and who gets access to it. Doctors do not have the right to open private clinics even if they choose to opt out (which cannot be done) out of the system. The argument used often enough in support of Medicare is that the average person cannot afford health care without a collectivist program. This is complete balderdash. Who is paying for health care now? The average person. If the current load of social programs were to be cut completely, as would be morally proper, the average person could pay for their own health care or purchase what level of insurance they wished to cover health costs. The second problem with Medicare is the very coercive nature of the program. If one does not wish to be a part of the Medicare system, one has no recourse. Your taxes pay for the institutional slavery of doctors and patients whether you support it or not. At the barrel of a proverbial gun you are told that you must be a part of Medicare because it is good for you and society.

75. Freedom Party Of Ontario (CANADA) - Consent 7 - Jan-Apr 1989 Is socialized medicine A Sacred Cow? Murray Hopper. (Mr. Hopper is a founding member of Freedom Party, now in charge of special projects.). Medicare in Canada http://www.freedomparty.org/consent/cons07_1.htm

Consent #7 January-April 1989 To Table of Contents Is Socialized Medicine A Sacred Cow? Murray Hopper (Mr. Hopper is a founding member of Freedom Party, now in charge of special projects.) M edicare in Canada has become the object of a national shouting match: federal politicians bicker back and fourth with their provincial counterparts about the sharing of ever-escalating costs; the health care bureaucracy and the man in the street castigate the "wicked" doctors for daring to extra-bill or require user fees; doctors, in their turn, resent growing government intrusion into matters medical; and above all the chaos, hell-bent for election and re-election on their white medicare chargers, ride politicians of every party who advocate further coercive legislation, seek to paper over the cracks, end the tumult, and restore domestic tranquility. Don't hold your breath, friends. Seldom has so much heat generated so little light. Thanks to government propaganda over the years, any rational examination of the basic flaws in our healthcare system is precluded. Since the founding principles of medicare (universality, portability, comprehensiveness, and public administration) have been elevated to the status of holy writ (the "Four Commandments"?), no politician dares question them. Among them is Brian Mulroney who is tip-toeing through the medicare minefield, smiling a lot and saying nothing ... since he has no reasonable alternative. What happened to the perceived bright promise of just twenty years ago? Canadians were to have been freed forever, by the actions of a wise, humane, and benevolent government, from all worries about healthcare. It hasn't happened; the whole system is breaking down. What is to be done?

76. Random Nuclear Strikes: Oh Yeah! Gimmie Some Of That Socialized Medicine and some truly ignorant in the middle) scream and hollar for socialized medicine. And now, from Canada, where the government looooves to ‘protect’ the http://www.softgreenglow.com/mt/archives/003594.html

Random Nuclear Strikes Nunquam dedisco Main May 10, 2004 Oh yeah! Gimmie some of that Socialized Medicine Folks on the left (and some truly ignorant in the middle) scream and hollar for Socialized Medicine. They welcome a minimum 9% extra being taken out of their paychecks so that crackheads and those to lazy to go out and get their own damn healthcare can clog the nations emoergency rooms. Fines of up to $100,000 for owning, selling baby walkers But why would the government baby walkers banned? A review of Canadian hospital admissions between April 1, 1990, and July 25, 1992, found 436 children under the age of about 18 months had been injured in walkers. Most suffered soft-tissue injuries, concussions, burns or fractures. And who has to put out the money for all those injuries? Why, the government, of course. Found @ Curmudgeonly and Skeptical Who also reminds us that, in Canada, where they like their serfs stupid and sedated, marijuana is legal. TrackBack Comments Not arguing your point - that increased government control and spending is foolish and ultimately counterproductive most of the time - but I have read that "walkers" can actually slow down a kid's development in walking, running etc. I'm not a parent, so I have no dog in this fight, for now. Just thought I'd mention it in my capacity as an Official Bestower of Useless(?) Information. Posted by: Mollbot at May 10, 2004 09:19 AM

77. Capitalism Magazine: Is A "Right To Prescription Drugs" Good Medicine? By David canadian medical researchers, doctors, and nurses are as good a capitalist free market in medicine where they they are subject to a socialist controlled system http://www.capmag.com/articlePrint.asp?ID=645

78. The Sentinel At The Ohio State University the failures of socialized medicine in other nations and disregarded the principles of individual rights our country was founded on. Canada’s socialized http://www.osusentinel.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1083627336&archive=&s

79. Rex Morgan's Prescription: Socialized Medicine In U.S. | Physicians For A Nation Morgan s prescription socialized medicine in US. August 29, 2002. JAMES ADAMS NATIONAL ARTS CORRESPONDENT. Supporters of socialized health care in Canada and the http://www.pnhp.org/news/2002/august/rex_morgans_prescrip.php

Join PNHP Contact Us About PNHP Search Only: News Publications Get the Facts Our Proposals Media Inquiries News and Updates Take Action Join PNHP About PNHP Other Links Skip over navigation Home Rex Morgan's prescription: socialized medicine in U.S. document.write(""); Rex Morgan's prescription: socialized medicine in U.S. August 29, 2002 JAMES ADAMS NATIONAL ARTS CORRESPONDENT Supporters of socialized health care in Canada and the United States have a seemingly unlikely friend in Rex Morgan M.D., the handsome, deeply decent physician who has been a staple of newspaper comics since 1948. So far there's no record of the Romanow health care commission or the U.S. Secretary of Health having consulted the fictional doctor. However, as any of the 30 million readers of the syndicated strip carried by 300 newspapers in 15 countries can tell you, Rex has come out foursquare in favour of what his creator calls "a single-payer, state-supported health care system." Interestingly, the man behind Rex Morgan's position isn't some "communist or liberal socialist" although he has received plenty of mail calling him that, and worse. He's Woody Wilson, a 55-year-old registered Republican from Tempe, Ariz., who voted for George W. Bush in the 2000 elections. "I believe the country that is supposedly the richest and most powerful in the world shouldn't be forcing its citizens to choose between paying their mortgage or saving their lives. Yet that is what is happening with millions of Americans right now," Mr. Wilson said in an interview this week.

80. How To Stop A Tax Increase By David R. Henderson Canada s socialized medicine is really a form of price controls, with the price of every hospital stay and every doctor visit set at zero. http://www.lewrockwell.com/henderson/henderson5.html

How To Stop a Tax Increase by David R. Henderson by David R. Henderson In my earlier piece on January 2 , I told how I reluctantly became involved in the fight against a ½ cent increase in the local sales tax to fund Natividad, a badly managed government hospital. Lawrence Samuels, the person who encouraged me to help him out, was my co-debater on a panel with Mark Tunzi and Melissa Larsen, two doctors from Natividad. This narrative picks up where the earlier one left off, telling of our November 11 debate at a forum packed heavily with supporters of Measure Q, the sales tax increase. Over and over again, people asked versions of the question, "What happens to health care for uninsured people when Natividad closes?" Lawrence and I kept answering that we couldn't know that it would close and that if it did, it would probably turn into a private hospital. In retrospect, I think this question wore me down. What I should have done each time is answered the question completely and then each time gone on to raise another point against Measure Q so that questioners in the audience would see that there was a cost to their side from asking the question. I did think of something, however, that was almost as good. After about the sixth time the question, "What do you do about medical care for poor people when Natividad closes down?", I said:

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