1. Date Sat, 27 Jan 1996 075519 -0500 From Greg Erwin Ai815 Date Sat, 27 Jan 1996 075519 0500 From Greg Erwin ai815@FREENET.CARLETON.CA Subject canadian socialized medicine TIMOTHEUS(GORSKI) 72724.3223 http://world.std.com/~mhuben/erwin

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 07:55:19 -0500 From: Greg Erwin Subject: Canadian Socialized Medicine "TIMOTHEUS(GORSKI)" wrote: Gee, you're soooo clever. Right, I confess it now. I made up all the stuff about people not receiving health care in the US, the only people who do not are lazy, good-for-nothing bums who refuse to work, and choose to live in the street because they like the outdoors, just like Ronnie said. And I have to admit, our three children were born in an igloo in the back yard. When the labour pains started, the soonest they could schedule a birth was 3 months away. Likewise, my wife's surgery, and my own, and my mother-in-law's recent hospitalization, they were all a hallucination, we did it ourselves, with a butter knife in the kitchen, but I was too ashamed to admit it. Actually, everybody in Canada died weeks ago from the neglect imposed by our socialist medical system, we're just keeping it a secret. My Socialist Party Masters (NDP) will probably haul me off to thought reform camp for revealing this, and without a hand gun I will be powerless to stop them. I forgot to mention it, until reminded in a later post by Rebecca, that of course, they must have used my universal Canadian ID card to track me down. Oh, if I had only listened to your warnings! If only everybody here had had a .45 and doctors were earning high five figure incomes, then we, in Canada, could have enjoyed the prosperity, success and delights of the US. Oh, how I wish I were still in the US, helping to pay for the Savings and Loan entrepreneurs, contributing to the Pentagon's supplies of materiel (estimated as having enough in some categories to last for centuries) and being able to shoot strangers through the door without fear of interference...

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3. Socialized Medicine Leaves A Bad Taste In Pat...  [Mackinac Center For Public P Bad food in canadian Hospitals is symptomatic of the problems of a singlepayer health care system. http://www.mackinac.org/article.asp?ID=2748

4. Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience The Foundation for Economic Education Was founded by Leonard E. Read in Irvington New York. We publish Ideas on Liberty (IOL), formerly the Freeman, with articles on Liberty Freedom and Free socialized medicine The canadian Experience. Published in The Freeman Ideas drawn from the canadian experience with socialized medicine. First of all, socialized medicine http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=2039

5. Socialized Medicine Is The Problem Orleans. Recently, canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien changed his mind about his country’s system of socialized medicine. After http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=260

6. Spotlight On Socialized Medicine From Free-Market.Net: The Freedom Network An overview and libertarian perspective on health care issues. Summarizes the debate and includes a large directory of online resources for information and activism. effectively immunized the U.S. against grandiose socialized medicine plans for the foreseeable future 3/27/04) canadian government spat over socialized medicine funding continues http://www.free-market.net/spotlight/healthcare

about news channels network ... sponsored by you are here: Free-Market.Net Spotlight Socialized Medicine DMV doctoring It's been a few years since Hillary Clinton attempted to redesign the nation's healthcare system with the sort of secrecy generally attributed to a gathering of Mafia dons. While she and her cohorts were apparently rather pleased with their efforts, they managed to give the entire nation a case of the willies that has effectively immunized the U.S. against grandiose socialized medicine plans for the foreseeable future. Modest socialized plans are still with us, unfortunately. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Why be so hard on government officials who are just attempting to heal medicine's supposed ills? Well, it could be because the models that have traditionally drawn the health-reform Mafia like flies to ... well, you know ... are so very, very scary. If you've ever been to the Department of Motor Vehicles, the memory that sticks with you, no matter how hard you try to shake it, is of the seemingly endless lines. Now, combine those lines with a suspicious lump where lumps have no business being, and you have the overnment-run medical systems in Canada and the United Kingdom. As the National Center for Policy Analysis reported , "[w]aiting lists for surgery in some Canadian hospitals can stretch from months to as long as five years."

7. Failure Defined As Success In Socialized Medicine Failure Defined As Success in socialized medicine. Only weeks back, health care experts celebrated the The eternally patient or comatose canadian taxpayer is the one who must http://www.ilanamercer.com/Failure.htm

Failure Defined As Success in Socialized Medicine Only weeks back, health care experts celebrated the imminent infusion into the Canada Health and Social Transfer system of some $21.2-billion dollars. There was a sense of being back on track. The experts, for the most, claimed a renewed pledge had been made to the health care Leviathan, although they gingerly proffered that more of a change in delivery of services was required. This has been forgotten. Defection of specialists continues unabated, waiting times for life saving treatment grow, and much of the diagnostic equipment is obsolete. Make no mistake; I am not here accusing the Feds of good will. But even they, however, are powerless to give the nation what it demands, because no amount of money will do, not ever. A socialized system by nature midwives the dilapidation we are witnessing. Show me a company in the private sector (which is not the recipient of government handouts) that is shielded from bankruptcy. An audit doubtless would reveal that Medicare is insolvent, yet the fact that the taxpayer is forced to bankroll it indefinitely with tax dollars, immunizes the system against fiscal accountability. Medicare, it can be said, is a perfect system of unaccountability. Compounding this, prices of services are pegged at zero. This drives consumers to use the service voraciously, with the result that endemic shortages are built into the system. And why are the experts in a tizzy attempting arbitrarily to figure out where the latest cash is needed most? They can't seem to decide whether it should go to technology, staff, or maybe towards new databases to keep tabs on Canadians. In a free market, the institute of private property ensures that we have prices. Prices are like a compass: pegged to supply and demand they ensure the correct allocation of resources. Conversely, in a nationalized system there are no prices because there is no private property. Absent such knowledge, misallocation of capital is inevitable. The attitude, however, seems to be that of "let the people use derrière doctors (proctologists)" if misallocation causes shortages of surgeons.

8. Backcountry Conservative: Dan Aykroyd Against Socialized Medicine Dan Aykroyd Against socialized medicine. From Page Six rate care of socialized medicine. " One place you don't want to get sick is Quebec " the canadian actor advised us after http://www.jquinton.com/archives/000611.html

Main November 19, 2003 Dan Aykroyd Against Socialized Medicine From Page Six DAN Aykroyd is no fan of the bureaucratic bungling and cut-rate care of socialized medicine. "One place you don't want to get sick is Quebec," the Canadian actor advised us after a screening of Denys Arcand's "The Barbarian Invasions." "It's all socialized. Believe me, you don't want to go to a hospital there." "Barbarians," a warm and witty tale about a French-Canadian college professor dying of cancer, won best screenplay at Cannes. And judging from the buzz at the dinner after at the Plaza Athénée with Todd Solondz, Bret Easton Ellis, Marina Rust and Frank Langella, Manhattan's cognoscenti agree. Update Freedom of Thought has more on Canadian healthcare. TrackBack Comments Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Yes No Comments: var site="sm8backcountry"

9. Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience socialized medicine The canadian Experience. by Pierre Lemieux. Several lessons can be drawn from the canadian experience with socialized medicine. http://www.theadvocates.org/freeman/8903lemi.html

Click Here to Visit our Sponsor Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience by Pierre Lemieux The Canadian public health system is often put forward as an ideal for Americans to emulate. It provides all Canadians with free basic health care: free doctors' visits, free hospital ward care, free surgery, free drugs and medicine while in the hospital plus some free dental care for children as well as free prescription drugs and other services for the over-65 and welfare recipients. You just show your plastic medicare card and you never see a medical bill. This extensive national health system was begun in the late 1950s with a system of publicly funded hospital insurance, and completed in the late 1960s and early 1970s when comprehensive health insurance was put into place. The federal government finances about 40 per cent of the costs, provided the provinces set up a system satisfying federal norms. All provincial systems thus are very similar, and the Quebec case which we will examine is fairly typical. One immediate problem with public health care is with the funding. Those usually attracted to such a "free" system are the poor and the sick those least able to pay. A political solution is to force everybody to enroll in the system, which amounts to redistributing income towards participants with higher health risks or lower income. This is why the Canadian system is universal and compulsory.

10. Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience The canadian public health system was begun in the late 1950s with a system of publicly funded hospital insurance, and completed in the late 1960s and early 1970s when comprehensive health Several lessons can be drawn from the canadian experience with socialized medicine http://www.self-gov.org/freeman/8903lemi.html

Click Here to Visit our Sponsor Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience by Pierre Lemieux The Canadian public health system is often put forward as an ideal for Americans to emulate. It provides all Canadians with free basic health care: free doctors' visits, free hospital ward care, free surgery, free drugs and medicine while in the hospital plus some free dental care for children as well as free prescription drugs and other services for the over-65 and welfare recipients. You just show your plastic medicare card and you never see a medical bill. This extensive national health system was begun in the late 1950s with a system of publicly funded hospital insurance, and completed in the late 1960s and early 1970s when comprehensive health insurance was put into place. The federal government finances about 40 per cent of the costs, provided the provinces set up a system satisfying federal norms. All provincial systems thus are very similar, and the Quebec case which we will examine is fairly typical. One immediate problem with public health care is with the funding. Those usually attracted to such a "free" system are the poor and the sick those least able to pay. A political solution is to force everybody to enroll in the system, which amounts to redistributing income towards participants with higher health risks or lower income. This is why the Canadian system is universal and compulsory.

11. Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience socialized medicine The canadian Experience. Pierre Lemieux. 5. A Few Lessons. Several lessons can be drawn from the canadian experience with socialized medicine. http://www.libertyhaven.com/countriesandregions/canada/medicinecana.html

Theoretical/Philosophical Issues Politics/Government Personal Freedom Issues Regulations ... Yourname@libertyhaven.com Email login: Password: Search for: Books Magazines Music Maps Out of Print Books British Books British Magazines British Music Keywords: Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience Pierre Lemieux The Canadian public health system is often put forward as an ideal for Americans to emulate. It provides all Canadians with free basic health care: free doctors visits, free hospital ward care, free surgery, free drugs and medicine while in the hospital-plus some free dental care for children as well as free prescription drugs and other services for the over-65 and welfare recipients. You just show your plastic medicare card and you never see a medical bill. This extensive national health system was begun in the late 1950s with a system of publicly funded hospital insurance, and completed in the late 1960s and early 1970s when comprehensive health insurance was put into place. The federal government finances about 40 percent of the costs, provided the provinces set up a system satisfying federal norms. All provincial systems thus are very similar, and the Quebec case which we will examine is fairly typical. One immediate problem with public health care is with the funding. Those usually attracted to such a "free" system are the poor and the sick - those least able to pay. A political solution is to force everybody to enroll in the system, which amounts to redistributing income towards participants with higher health risks or lower income. This is why the Canadian system is universal and compulsory.

12. Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience, By Pierre Lemieux Even if a canadian wants to purchase basic private insurance besides the public coverage, he cannot find a private company legally allowed to satisfy his demand. 96100. socialized medicine The http://www.pierrelemieux.org/arthealthfreeman.html

Article published in The Freeman , March 1989, pp. 96-100 Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience by Pierre Lemieux The Canadian public health system is often put forward as an ideal for Americans to emulate. It provides all Canadians with free basic health care: free doctors' visits, free hospital ward care, free surgery, free drugs and medicine while in the hospital plus some free dental care for children as well as free prescription drugs and other services for the over-65 and welfare recipients. You just show your plastic medicare card and you never see a medical bill. This extensive national health system was begun in the late 1950s with a system of publicly funded hospital insurance, and completed in the late 1960s and early 1970s when comprehensive health insurance was put into place. The federal government finances about 40 per cent of the costs, provided the provinces set up a system satisfying federal norms. All provincial systems thus are very similar, and the Quebec case which we will examine is fairly typical. One immediate problem with public health care is with the funding. Those usually attracted to such a "free" system are the poor and the sick those least able to pay. A political solution is to force everybody to enroll in the system, which amounts to redistributing income towards participants with higher health risks or lower income. This is why the Canadian system is universal and compulsory.

13. Lemieux / Socialized Medicine - The Canadian Experience - Www.lls.lt to labor, the environment, education and income security.5 A Few Lessons Several lessons can be drawn from the canadian experience with socialized medicine. http://www.lls.lt/library/lemieux-socializedmed.htm

Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience, by Pierre Lemieux The Canadian public health system is often put forward as an ideal for Americans to emulate. It provides all Canadians with free basic health care: free doctors' visits, free hospital ward care, free surgery, free drugs and medicine while in the hospital plus some free dental care for children as well as free prescription drugs and other services for the over-65 and welfare recipients. You just show your plastic medicare card and you never see a medical bill. This extensive national health system was begun in the late 1950s with a system of publicly funded hospital insurance, and completed in the late 1960s and early 1970s when comprehensive health insurance was put into place. The federal government finances about 40 per cent of the costs, provided the provinces set up a system satisfying federal norms. All provincial systems thus are very similar, and the Quebec case which we will examine is fairly typical. One immediate problem with public health care is with the funding. Those usually attracted to such a "free" system are the poor and the sick those least able to pay. A political solution is to force everybody to enroll in the system, which amounts to redistributing income towards participants with higher health risks or lower income. This is why the Canadian system is universal and compulsory. Even if participation is compulsory in the sense that everyone has to pay a health insurance premium (through general or specific taxes), some individuals will be willing to pay a second time to purchase private insurance and obtain private care. If you want to avoid this double system, you do as in Canada: you legislate a monopoly for the public health insurance system.

14. Definition Of Publicly Funded Medicine - WordIQ Dictionary & Encyclopedia as canadian residents first, whereas it is relatively easy for canadians to buy According to them, socialized medicine tends to result in waiting lists for or http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Publicly_funded_medicine

Encyclopedia Dictionary Thesaurus The Web eBooks loadkeyword("Publicly funded medicine"); Publicly funded medicine Encyclopedia Definition: Publicly funded medicine Publicly funded medicine is a level of medical service that is paid wholly or in majority part by public funds ( taxes ). Publicly funded medicine is often referred to as socialized medicine by its opponents, whereas supporters of this approach tend to use the terms National Health Services , universal healthcare, or "single payer healthcare". It is seen as a key part of a welfare state (see Welfare State for an interpretation in UK terms). Publicly funded medicine may be administered and provided by the government , but that is not an obligation: there exist systems where medicine is publicly funded, yet most health providers are private entities. The organization providing public health insurance is not necessarily a public administration, and its budget may be isolated from the main state budget. Likewise, some systems do not necessarily provide universal healthcare, nor restrict coverage to public health facilities. Table of contents showTocToggle("show","hide")

15. The Problems With Socialized Health Care socialized medicine The canadian Experience Explores several lessons that can be drawn from the canadian experience with socialized medicine http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/socialized.html

Home > Issues > Health Care The Problems with Socialized Health Care "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free." - P.J. O'Rourke Liberty Links Freedom Party of Ontario [Issues Index - Health Care] Libertarian Articles Against Socialized Medicine [Self-gov.org] Spotlight on Socialized Medicine [FreeMarket.net] Enemies of Liberty American Medical Student Association [AMSA] Physicians for a National Health Program [PNHP] Universal Healthcare Action Network [UHCAN] Experiments in Socialism Great Britain Other European Countries Canada Former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics ... Other Links/Articles Great Britain [Top] Hospital Crisis: Fallen Angels MORE foreign nurses are working in UK hospitals than home-grown staff, a survey has found. Health consultants blame the situation on poor wages and conditions in British hospitals in a damning report. - Lindsay Mcgarvie, May 23, 2004 [Glasgow Sunday Mail] Study finds British hospitals are still austere, cold, smelly and poorly maintained - May 6, 2004 [News-Medical.net] Hospital bathrooms and showers: a continuing saga of inadequacy ...many basic problems remain—absent locks and signs, inadequate heating, poor standards of privacy, insufficient bath aids, wet floors, and the inappropriate use of bathrooms as store rooms.

16. Outside The Beltway: SOCIALIZED MEDICINE REDUX a higher a MUCH HIGHER - percentage of GDP in other socialized medicine countries is canadian doctors and nurses make much less than in the US, and they http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/004563.html

Tabloid Column Word of The Day Chronograph Watches Xerox Fax Machines ... Main Friday, January 09, 2004 SOCIALIZED MEDICINE REDUX Kevin Drum , citing a NYT report that Public spending accounts for "45 percent of all health spending in the United States, compared with a 72 percent average in O.E.C.D. countries," argues The government already pays for 45% of healthcare costs in America, which means that public healthcare spending accounts for 45% of 15% of GDP, or 6.75%. In other western countries healthcare costs are about 10% of GDP, which means that public spending accounts for about 72% of 10%, or 7.2%. That's barely more than we spend in percentage terms and less than we spend in actual dollars per person. And by most conventional measures they deliver care that's as good or better than ours. For everyone. A long discussion follows in the comments section, with many pointing out that it is certainly arguable as to whether health care is comparable in other countries, given long delays, denial of access to expensive technologies, etc. I'm rather leery of going to a single payer system although I agree that our current one is deeply flawed as well. If we take profit out of it, I'm not sure what incentives there would be toward invening new techologies, drugs, and the like, for example. For those who can afford itwhich is to say, most of usthe U.S. system is almost certainly better than that in Canada or Western Europe. Even rural hospitals here have up-to-date technology and near-instant availability of care. But for those without deep pockets or decent health insurance, our system is less desirable than that of our peers.

17. Directory Of Socialized Medicine News Reports From Free-Market.Net: The Freedom canadian government spat over socialized medicine funding continues Source Toronto Star Country Canada A day after the federal budget opened up another http://www.free-market.net/directorybycategory/news/T8.1/

about map news channels ... find you are here: Free-Market.Net Find Directory by Category News Reports Socialized Medicine News Reports click here for sponsorship information search get personal recommendations add a resource/link ... Australia, New Zealand and Oceania Global UK's socialized medicine scam to crumble under obesity epidemic? Source: Independent Country: United Kingdom "Britain's 'devastating' epidemic of obesity could threaten the very existence of the NHS, a report warns ..." Instead of considering privatizing medical care, politicians are criticizing government nannying on foods. (5/27/04) Canada's socialized medicine: mediocre care at high cost Source: Canada.com Country: Canada "Canada's universal medicare system achieves only middling success compared to other industrialized nations, despite being tied with Iceland's as the most expensive to run, a new analysis shows." (5/7/04) Click here for more categories for Global United States Fate of Maine socialized medicine plan uncertain Source: Portland Press Herald State: ME

18. FrontPage Magazine.com :: Socialized Medicine Resurrexit By Jeffrey Miles socialized medicine Resurrexit By Jeffrey Miles FrontPageMagazine.com should live under canadian/European/Cuban without insurance, that socialized systems spend http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8332

19. Socialized Medicine socialized medicine The canadian Experience The canadian public health system was begun in the late 1950s with a system of publicly funded hospital insurance http://www.fast-easy-pharmacy.com/2/socialized-medicine.html

Pain Relief Celebrex Ultram Vioxx Fioricet ... Celexa Weight Loss Adipex Bontril Ionamin Meridia ... Phendimetrazine Men's Health Propecia Viagra Levitra Women's Health Ortho Tri-Cyclen Vaniqa Nordette 28 Ortho Evra patch ... Estradiol Allergy Relief Allegra Flonase Nasacort Nasonex ... Zyrtec Sleeping Aids Ambien Sonata Skin Care Retin A Renova Sexual Health Acyclovir Valtrex Viagra Migraine Relief Imitrex Fioricet Quit Smoking Zyban Anti-Depressants Paxil Prozac Zoloft Effexor ... Celexa Muscle Relaxants Cyclobenzaprine Skelaxin Flexeril Zanaflex Anxiety Buspar Heartburn Relief Prilosec Socialized Medicine Socialized Medicine With the dissolution of the Soviet Bloc, and the supposed calm (or apathy towards events) in the third world, the modern Republican has very few scapegoats to attack. Many ... ... Buchanan have spoken out against one new target: Socialized Medicine . The Clinton administration has vaguely touched on ... Socialized Medicine ... His motive in introducing socialized medicine in Germany was to buy the loyalty of the German masses as a means of ... The Problems with Socialized Health Care Socialized Medicine in Great Britain: Lessons for the Oregon Health Plan ...

20. NCPA - Daily Policy Digest - Socialized Medicine Refugees The socialized medicine refugees were searching for freemarket medical services the canadian health-care system has priced out of the market http://www.ncpa.org/iss/hea/2003/pd072503c.html

Policy Issues NCPA Publications Both Sides Commentaries ... Audio/Visual NATIONAL CENTER FOR POLICY ANALYSIS HOME DONATE ONE LEVEL UP ABOUT NCPA ... CONTACT US Socialized Medicine Refugees Daily Policy Digest Health Issues / Moving Toward Universal Coverage Friday, July 25, 2003 Evening news programs are filled with stories of Americans chartering buses to Canada to purchase prescription drugs at state-controlled, bargain prices. This week, however, a busload of Canadians made the trip in reverse, as they went from New Brunswick, Canada, to Bangor, Maine. The socialized medicine refugees were searching for free-market medical services the Canadian health-care system has priced out of the market: They were looking for specialist care, tests which require long waits in Canada and drugs not yet approved at home. Canadian patients are often required to try older, less-effective drugs before being allowed access to newer medicines and government price controls mean some medicines are not available at all. Although not as well publicized as American trips to Canada, thousands of Canadians cross the border daily in search of free-market medical solutions in the United States.

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